Circle 31 Podcast

Note: Please note that the text below is an uncorrected transcript of the audio captured for this podcast. We pray the Lord uses these words to bless you as you seek Him!

Ellen Adkins: Welcome back to our final episode of Circle 31 Podcast as we finish up reading Five Mere Christians. I am Ellen Adkins, and I am here with my cohost, Melissa Taylor.

Melissa Taylor: Hi, everybody.

Ellen Adkins: Hello. So glad to be back for another podcast episode.

Melissa Taylor: Yes.

Ellen Adkins: Melissa, this is a very special day for you.

Melissa Taylor: It sure is.

Ellen Adkins: Alright. Because we are featuring on this podcast one of your all-time favorite people. So, I'm gonna let you do the honors of introducing who do we have here today.

Melissa Taylor: Okay. You all, I'm gonna introduce you to someone I have known since I was in college. We were sorority sisters, and our husbands were fraternity brothers.

Ellen Adkins: Oh, love it.

Melissa Taylor: We were kind of just meant to be together for the rest of our lives after that, and I'm so very grateful that we were. Her name is Denise Hammond. Hey, Denise.

Denise Hammond: Hi, Mel.

Melissa Taylor: Thanks for being with us.

Denise Hammond: I'm so glad to be here.

Melissa Taylor: And you all, I have had, like, just the greatest joy in watching Denise over life. Joy and sometimes frustration, but mostly joy. Just a little frustration. And I'm only joking about that.

Y'all were supposed to laugh. But I was not being serious. But I just wanna tell you, like, she is full of so much joy and passion, and I mean this with all my heart. I've never met anybody that just the joy of the Lord, she cannot keep it in. And she has no problem sharing her faith.

In fact, it's not even like she goes out and says, I'm gonna share Jesus today. It just is natural. It just does. Yeah. It just happens.

Yes. She loves the Lord. She would shout it she does shout it from the rooftops, but I've watched her work hard. I've watched her play hard, but I've also watched her suffer hard in various parts of her life. But I've also, through all of it, seen her trust in the Lord really hard.

In fact, there's I know I know that Jesus is her very best friend in this world. That's very obvious. Just in the past, I don't know, a lot of years, she has owned and operated a farm camp where she welcomed hundreds and hundreds, over the years, thousands and thousands, but each year, hundreds of children, a whole lot of animals. She worked busy, busy days. And then a little over a year ago, she sold the farm and the camp and retired.

And literally, I watched her days go from being packed and busy and, you know, on the go all the time to, her being in a place that, she'd never been in before. And, Denise, that is why we really wanted you to come here. You're retired now, and I know that first of all, go back to when you worked, okay, when especially at the farm camps. And we're talking about glorifying God through your work. How easy or hard was it for you to glorify God?

Denise Hammond: Oh, it was a daily very, very easy daily chore, I guess, you could call it because I would get up in the morning, and I would go to the farm to do my chores. Mhmm. And I literally have an acronym. It's on my wall in my barn, G.O.D. gift of day. Mhmm.

And I just drive over to the farm and say, God, what are you gonna give me today? I was so ready. I was just talking to somebody about being on your tiptoes and waiting with that anticipation, and I had it every single day. For sixteen years, I ran my business. And every day, I was like, today's the day he's just gonna bless me with something.

And people used to say, like, Denise, we have got to have x. And whatever it was, if it was a horse or if it was an item for a camp, they'd say, we need this. And I would say, well, we're just gonna pray about it. And they say, well, like, we really need this, Denise, like yesterday. I was like, okay.

We'll just pray about it. Because I knew that when I would pray for something, he was going to gift me with whatever it was. Maybe not the exact thing that I was praying for, but it would be better than anything else that I could imagine. Right. Right.

So, I just had that childlike faith, like, on my tiptoes every day was a gift of day from God. And you found so much purpose, and you've always had your identity in Christ, but I think a large part of your identity was in your Speaking about it. Being about it. Living. Yeah.

I turned my passion into my profession when I retired from my first half of my life, right, in the corporate world. Right. And then I ran it for sixteen years at camp, got to bless many people because he gave it to me so I could then pass it on. Right. And I made it very well-known gift of day.

It was right in my barn. Like, you couldn't miss it. God. Right? Okay.

Melissa Taylor: So, you're retired now, and so I want you to go back to January of last year. Okay. Okay? Not to where you are today. We're gonna get to that.

But January of last year, you're retired. And, what was the hardest part for you in going from working out in a regular job or what people would consider, like, a Yeah. Getting paid for your job or whatever. My job. To then retiring and not having that anymore.

Denise Hammond: Okay. It's gonna be, it's a longer story, but I'm a start off with this. On my way over, I was listening to the Grateful Dead. Sorry, Proverbs 31. But listening to the Grateful Dead

Melissa Taylor: and We're okay with that, Denise.

Denise Hammond: Okay. The song is it comes on and I'm singing really loud in my car and it's what a long, strange trip it's been and it has been. Yes. It's only been eighteen months, but man, what a long, strange trip it has been mentally, physically, socially, spiritually, emotionally. It just really has taken a huge toll to just discover where I am now.

So, let's go back to January of last year. It's not a typical retirement. My typical retirement in my mind would be, oh my gosh. She’s well let's throw a party. She's done.

She's 65. Let's do it. Yay. She's retired. And you are ready for this next phase.

Mine was a decision that we made that we decided pretty much like Popeye. I've had all husbands. Yes. It's Kenny. And I'm like Popeye.

I've had all I can stands. I can't stand it no more. Like, we've got to do this. It is a must do. Kenny had a triple bypass open heart surgery, and it was I was a donkey on the edge.

And so, I called somebody that I knew very, very well that, was an investor, and he said, I said to him, does the offer still stand? He says, yes. It was that easy. End of the year, we were supposed to close. We closed in January.

Right? So, then camp is supposed to start, and I'm not doing camp. You know, I'm not selling camp January. I'm not talking to all the parents, and that is my busiest time of the year. Everybody thinks as a camp director, maybe summer is your busiest time because you're working these ridiculous hours.

It's everything that leads up to it. So, January, everything came to a halt and so did all my socialization, my everyday out there, the animals. I had 46 animals. And it's just, wow. Okay.

Like, done. And I just got very, very quiet. And I thought, oh, I'll just make a joke out of this. I'm retired. I'll start traveling.

I'll start doing stuff. Well, nobody else is retired. At 55, nobody retires. Right? And I'm thinking, well, I'll just go by myself.

And it became very isolated, lonely, quiet. And I thought, well, I'll just do a lot of journaling, and I'll just sit out here. And next thing I knew it, it was 11:00, then it's 12:00 in the afternoon. And then I'm like, well, I'm sort of bored. I'll just wait for Kenny to be done.

And that was day after day after day. And finally, I thought, okay. Let's do something about this. And I tried and I tried, and I realized the oppression just became depression inside. Mhmm.

And I truly do because I'm coming out of it. It's been an amazing month of discovery. But the oppression that I felt didn't know it was the oppression on me. And it became this spiral, and it became very isolated, and it became Satan's playground. Mhmm.

Melissa Taylor: Right. How not having all of that to throw yourself into and even the garden that you worked in for joy as hard as it was, do you that was you love doing that. That was gone with the farm and you where you live is a very small patch of land Ugh. Where your house is.

Denise Hammond: And see that compounds it because Right.

We move from one farm in the Ballantyne location in Charlotte to then build the new farm in Pineville, which was you know, I was there for six years, but I would just travel to it. Well, during those times, we said, hey. We don't need two farms. This is crazy. Let's sell that and move to this neighborhood.

Well, we still have the farm in Pineville when we moved to this house. Right. Well, my backyard is smaller than the studio that we're in and doesn't have full sun like the one I had at the garden at the farm. 90 by 90 garden to a four-by-four raised bed. Four feet by four feet.

Right. And gardening was one of my favorite passions. It was a component of camp, and it was one of my favorite passions. And I can't do that.

Melissa Taylor: And therapy.

Denise Hammond: And therapy. Oh my gosh. COVID for me was awesome. Everybody else is in their house. I'm at my garden for up to twelve hours a day.

I was just therapy like that as well. You like to work?

Ellen Adkins: Yeah. I worked on a farm. She throughout grad school, I worked on an organic vegetable garden, and it was my favorite job that I think I have ever had.

It was so Incredible. Fun. Yeah.

Denise Hammond: Everything organic from even the ground that you walk up to the soil that everything grows in.

Ellen Adkins: Yeah.

Denise Hammond: Everything is just incredible.

Ellen Adkins: Right?

Denise Hammond: Oh, it was amazing. And then I got to go sell at the farmer's market and all that. It was so fun.

Melissa Taylor: Okay. You have to give them I can volunteer with them. I wish you would have seen their faces right now. Yeah. We're lucky. Look. Wow. Wow. And Kaylene, who produces this, we're both sitting here going, oh, yay. That sounds like a lot more to me.

I love it. Okay. So, talk about what's God's purpose for you right now? What how you know, before when it was so clear how you were glorifying God and what you did, how do you find that? Because you said you were in a deep, kinda depressed place.

Denise Hammond: Yeah. And so, but you're coming out of it. It hasn't been fast. No. You know, I think, two years ago when my mom died, it was okay to feel this way.

And then I thought I need a group, so I did a group through my church. Mhmm. I thought, okay. This is great. Like a grief?

Yeah. A grief yeah. Yeah. Grief counseling. And it was awesome because I really need that.

I'm a group person. I'm a people person. I needed Mhmm. The width and through others to heal. And when then we sold the farm a year later, okay, the grief compounded, and it just kept getting bigger and deeper, my hole.

And I finally thought, you don't need a group as much. You don't need your best friend, Melissa, and Angie as much. You need a professional. So, I started going to a professional that also knew me as a professional. Her child used to ride at my farm, and so she's I've grown up with her, and she's grown up with me.

And she's seen me in a couple different roles. And I walk in, and all I did was cry the first day. I could cry just talking about it because I feel sorry for that girl Mhmm. Who walked in there because it was so hard.

Melissa Taylor: And let me tell you, Denise, I mean, we know I answer a lot of the emails that come into Proverbs 31 from people who are hurting, and they're a lot of them are retired women who felt fulfilled in their lives.

And maybe now their kids are out of the house if they're moms, or they don't have this job that gave them purpose. And now they're like and they're they love the lord. They believe in him, but they're like, what am I what am I gonna do? Is God done with me?

Denise Hammond: And, you know, it's funny that you say this because this morning, I had a coffee meeting with somebody that I set up as part of my healing process is to go to these different people.

And I set up this coffee meeting, and we were talking, and he said, I think it should be mandatory that anybody that goes into retirement goes into counseling at the same time. Yeah. Because you've lost a little bit of your way, especially if it's, like, not a forced retirement, but a decision that you've made, but you're young or you're not finished yet Mhmm. So, to speak. Right.

And so, through that counseling and through the wisdom of other people that did know me and through lots and lots of prayer and quiet time and journaling, I'm slowly getting back the Denise. I think the hardest thing has been not that you lose your identity, but in a sense, you just lose your point. Right? So, it's not just even the direction. Like, what direction am I gonna go in?

Because I don't want to go back to work. I really sorta like this lifestyle. Right? But I want to be used in my giftedness. I want to be used with some of my talents.

I want to be used as an important person. And it took the Lord saying, well, you are important. Right. And I'm gonna use you. And if you will listen to what my word says about you and if you will listen really, really hard to my voice, not the others around you, not the world repeating itself around you, even through music.

Sometimes I get lost in music, and I'm really not even listening to him. So, it's very important that I dove into the word and I accepted it. I think there's two parts because you can read a lot of great scriptures. You can listen to a lot of great podcasts. You can even listen to an amazing morning devotional and not make it personal as if it was him speaking to you.

You're just taking in saying that was a great Check. Check. That was a great Psalm. Yeah. It needs to have your name in it Mhmm.

As if he was speaking to you. And that's what made a big difference. And slowly and I called you this morning, y'all.
Melissa Taylor: Yes. You did.

Denise Hammond: This morning, it hit me, and I started crying on the phone because it was, like, so, oh my gosh. Every year, we would go away in at New Year's and make our New Year's resolutions and come up with a word for ourself for that year, and mine was impact. This year? This year. I was like, I'm going to make an impact.

Impact is my word. And it hit me this morning through hearing in my brain, Denise, that word was for you. Let me make an impact in your life. I was so blown away. I was like, you are going to get the glory.

Oh my gosh. What a novel idea. Right? But it just was so powerful. And it's the ending of the prayer that we all know on earth as it is in heaven.

Your kingdom come. Your will be done. May it all happen for your glory. Right? So, it's like, okay.

His power made through the impact he's made just in this, I'd say, two-year period Mhmm. Is now my story. And now I am meant to pass it along to somebody else.

Melissa Tayor: Love it.

Denise Hammond: Yeah.

Melissa Taylor: Love it. Love it. Love it. I'm not done with it yet, though. I gotta get through it. So, in Five Mere Christians, each section — Mhmm.

You know, there's five biographies of five different people, and we're wrapping it up right now. We are. And the way that they end each section is three ways to glorify God in your work, and they talk about those people. So, Ellen, you know, I did not do an icebreaker at the beginning Mhmm. Because I wanted to save it for the end.

Oh, okay. You didn't know I was gonna ask. I didn't. This is all new. I love it.

So, think about where you are today. K. Okay. What are three ways to glorify God in your work in what you do today? Either one of you can go first.

Denise Hammond: Three ways to glorify God. One is to make sure he gets the glory. I won't even make that one, but make sure he gets the glory. So, if I'm going to say or do something, it's gotta be to his glory Mhmm. And not to Denise's glory.

Not I'm so great. Let me tell you how God used me. And that that's a tough one because it's like you try to be humble, but you're not But I do love hearing about it when it happens to y'all. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I do too. I love telling you how to do it. So, I think number one is to make sure he gets the glory in whatever you do or say. Okay.

What was the question again? What are the three ways to glorify God in this place in your life? Number two. Number two is to be authentic that I am like this hear me roar type of person, and people need to know you gotta hear me cry. Like, it's been really, really rough.

Yeah. Right? So, to be so authentic that people know, hey, man. She doesn't have it all together or she's getting it together. Man, I've always thought she had it.

Right? So, to be brutally authentic. And third is to glorify him in your next phase and say, I just like, to show everybody else that there is something coming. You're never done. You're never done.

Melissa Taylor: Retired doesn't mean finished.

Denise Hammond: It doesn't. Doesn't mean over. Doesn't. Yeah.

And I think especially with women, I hate to even say this, but maybe women who aren't the breadwinner, if you retire, then you feel like, oh my gosh. I have no point. Or if you were the breadwinner let me even change that around. Let's say you were the one that brought home the bacon and then you retire. Now you're like, oh my gosh.

My point was to be the breadwinner. I no longer have a point. Right. That is such a misnomer. Like, we need to squelch that.

We need to put that down, and it only comes, I think, from other women especially speaking authentically about that and then saying, hey. Gods not finished with me. I may be retired from this, but I can't wait. And I have my time to glorify God.

Melissa Taylor: And I can still glorify him.

Denise Hammond: Yeah. Even in the waiting, one of our mentors, Mel’s, used to say waiting is an action verb. You wait with anticipation. Mhmm. Yeah.

Melissa Taylor: Yep. I've been thinking I think I just Okay. Because it's e I would even say in your what you used to do, Denise, and what we do now, we work in a ministry. Yeah. So, a lot of people will go, well, of course, you glorify God in your work.

Ellen Adkins: Well, it's surprisingly hard because something I was gonna say, I can really only think of one thing. I'm sure I could think of more. But I think one of the biggest things I'm thinking about of how to glorify God when working in a ministry context is it is so easy for me to want to do work for God without spending time with him. And this is something that Jordan actually brought up in a previous teaching video Mhmm. Earlier.

Jordan's one of the authors. Yes. One of the authors. Is asking yourself that question is, can your time spent with God sustain the work that you want to do for God? Because I have found the most spiritually dry or hypocritical that I feel is when I am doing the work of ministry, but I'm not actually spending time with God as my father, in my everyday life.

So, I think one of the ways to glorify God, especially working in ministry, is to be with him and to spend time with him. That's so wise. Yeah. That's really good. Intentional.

Yes. Yes. Intentional time. Yes. And not just, oh, I read a book for work.

That was my time with God. But yeah. Yeah. And I think it's cool.

Melissa Taylor: We kinda saw a lot of what you both are saying in the five people that we read about in this book.

Ellen Atkins: Yeah. Is a lot of, like, I think back to Fred Rogers, he slowed down to be with people. Mhmm. It's like little things. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. That's cool. Man, what a great way to round out this final, podcast of this book club. And, guys, we're not quite done yet.

We have one more big event tomorrow, September 4 at 10:30 eastern time. We have Beyond the Pages. We're gonna have Jordan and Kaleigh joining live, with us to celebrate the end of reading Five Mere Christians. They're gonna come and just have some wonderful book club discussions. So be sure to RSVP in Mighty Networks for all of the details.

We can't wait to see you there. Right. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.

Bye.